Rochester Subway
Subscribe for Email UpdatesBecome a Facebook FanFollow Us on TwitterRSS Feed Rochester History + New Ideas. Fresh from the Rochester Subway.

Topics


Rochester Subway Gift Shop


¤ Visit the Gift Shop
¤ See Combo Deals & Offers


Modern Rochester Subway Map

Modern Rochester Subway Map

¤ View Details

 | 

Add To Cart


Rochester Neighborhoods Map

Rochester Neighborhoods Map

¤ View Details

 | 

Add To Cart


Rochester Subway Map, 1928

1928 Rochester Subway Map

¤ View Details

 | 

Add To Cart


Rochester Subway DVD

The End of the Line - Rochester’s Subway (DVD)

¤ View Details

 | 

Add To Cart


Rochester Landmarks Poster

Rochester Landmarks Poster

¤ View Details

 | 

Add To Cart


Original Streetart by SPACEMAN

Original Streetart by SPACEMAN

¤ View All Spaceman Art


Old Rochester Photos<br>and Historical Views

Old Rochester Photos
and Historical Views

(Framed Reprints Available)

¤ View All Rochester Photos


Rochester Subway Cap

Embroidered Subway Cap

¤ View Details


Rochester Subway T-Shirt

Rochester Subway T-Shirt

¤ View Details


Rochester Subway Token T-Shirt

RTC Token T-Shirt

¤ View Details


Rochester RTC Token

RTC Token (1948)

¤ View Details

 | 

SOLD OUT


Roch. & Brighton Token

Roch. & Brighton Token
(1887-90)

¤ View Details

 | 

Add To Cart


Rochester Railway Co. Token

Rochester Railway Co. Token (1900-09)

¤ View Details

 | 

SOLD OUT


Rochester School Fare Token

School Fare Token (1948)

¤ View Details

 | 

Add To Cart


Rochester NYS Railways Token

NYS Railways Token (1909-38)

¤ View Details

 | 

Add To Cart


Rochester Subway Poster + DVD Combo

Rochester Subway
Poster + DVD Combo

¤ 

Add To Cart

 (Save 10%)


Rochester Subway Vintage Postcard

Vintage Postcard (1941),
Rochester Rail Equipment

¤ View Details

 | 

Order Reprint

¤ See All Vintage Postcards


Rochester Subway Vintage Postcard

Vintage Postcard (1938),
Subway & Broad Street

¤ View Details

 | 

Order Reprint

¤ See All Vintage Postcards


Rochester Subway Vintage Postcard

Vintage Postcard (1942),
Rochester City Hall & Subway

¤ View Details

 | 

Order Reprint

¤ See All Vintage Postcards


Rochester Subway Vintage Postcard

Vintage Postcard (c.1912),
Rochester’s Four Corners

¤ View Details

 | 

Order Reprint

¤ See All Vintage Postcards


Rochester Subway Vintage Postcard

Vintage Postcard (c.1905),
Erie Canal Aqueduct

¤ View Details

 | 

Order Reprint

¤ See All Vintage Postcards


Rochester Subway Vintage Postcard

Vintage Postcard (c.1928),
South Entrance to Subway

¤ View Details

 | 

Order Reprint

¤ See All Vintage Postcards


Rochester Subway + Trolley Transit Passes

Original Subway, Trolley,
and Bus Weekly Transit Passes

¤ View All Transit Passes





16 Responses to “Filling In: 88 Elm”

  1. Tricia Monigle says:

    Love all three ideas. I do agree with you about the hotel idea even though it is probably needed with RIT and the University so close by. Also, love this page and all you do with it. Thank you for keeping the memories of Rochester alive!!!

  2. matt r says:

    I always wondered about 88 Elm Street and why it stood there empty. (The cynic in me should have known the City of Rochester owned it.) It’ll be tough to turn it into anything profitable with the Cadillac right beside it and the type of residents it attracts and to which it caters.

    I like your apartment concept best. However, I’d like to see the first floor (and possible second floor as well) turned into a grocery store. If we’re going to have more and more downtown housing, someone needs to take the risk of opening a decent store with fresh vegetables and toilet paper. 88 Elm is centrally located to Sibley (with its planned residential component), Temple Building, East End, and downtown offices for prepared foods (at lunch time for workers and nighttime for downtown-living residents) and groceries.

    I know I’m describing the former Wegmans at Midtown, but we’re on the cusp of hitting that tipping point for a viable grocery store downtown.

    Matt Denker: I like your contributions to Rochester Subway!

  3. Matthew Denker says:

    First, thank you both very much! Second, I think some sort of grocery in the Sibley Building would be better. Not only is there more square footage, but it has all of those great interior walls that can be covered with shelving without hurting the street (see the recent College Town conversation for more on this). There’s also the possibility for a much larger store in the podium of Midtown Tower. I must admit that I do not know Buckingham’s plans for the larger, lower floors.

  4. jimmy says:

    I like that first picture. It makes me think big city! Apartments would be cool and so would the other two ideas

  5. Martin Wright says:

    Building was build in 1920 per rochester gis. I remember hearing about the last owner destroying the pipes and electric before the city took it so that it wouldn’t be turn key. Also if you search good with a proxy search you will find cool newspapers from the 30′s and 40′s about business in the building.

    In google search “88 Elm St”+”rochester ny”

  6. John K says:

    How about cowork space? Maker spaces, artist spaces? Think Hungerford, Village gate, and High Falls Cowork spaces. Not sure if the market is already saturated in these areas, but it would only require the basic electrical and plumbing installation and the rest can be put together by the tenants.

  7. Matthew Denker says:

    Hi John, this is an good idea, but makes for boring floorplans to show off.

    I’m not sure that the market is saturated, but the income from such an operation is generally low. This creates economic problems with supporting the ongoing maintenance of a skyscraper.

    There are other properties more suitable to coworking space, is I guess where the argument is going. That said, there is the possibility to incorporate site specific amenities, such as coworking space for students in the dorm plan.

    Additionally, because only office space is a high enough intensity use to demand 3 elevators for 12 floors. It is possible to split the building into a few floors of one use, serviced by one elevator, and a few floors of something else serviced by the second/others. In this way, you might be able to set aside a floor or two for coworking space and “subsidize” it with the other floors.

    This will work better with students or a hotel, and less well with residents.

  8. Irene says:

    Re Grocery store
    There IS a grocery store downtown, only half a mile (11 minute walk) from 88 Elm – Abundance Coop has fresh produce, toilet paper, dairy, bread, frozen meat and fish, and most other things one needs. I do agree Sibley would be a good spot for a larger grocery, or even one of the smaller urban Target stores that they put into historic beloved buildings.

    Re student housing
    I am curious on why this is your least favorite use. One of the things downtown needs more of is life on the street at night and weekends, and students seem to provide that in other cities. Maybe grad student apartments would be better than actual dorms though.

  9. Irene says:

    Re Next to Cadillac Hotel
    The Cadillac is certainly not a plus as it is, but has always struck me as having great possibilities. Imagine a retro-cool cocktail lounge with hotel or apartments above – keeping the funky old Cadillac sign. I heard there was a plan to stop using it as overflow homeless housing so maybe the next step will be some positive development there.

  10. Jason Haremza says:

    Never believe the building’s date on the City of Rochester’s geographic information system (GIS) or most real estate listings. These dates are provided by the property assessors office and are only the best guess of whoever is doing the assessment.

    There is no historical research backing any of them up. For example, the Academy Building at 13 South Fitzhugh was really built in 1873 but the City’s GIS lists it as 1930.

  11. Matthew Denker says:

    So I guess my biggest issue with student housing is that while it makes the most money for the building’s owner, it creates the least economic activity (hotel) or stability (apartments) for the area. I mean, if it were my building, and I was going purely for profits, I’d kill to have it be student housing. Let’s be honest you’re looking at 20+ students a floor. With a dozen floors, it’s about 240 beds. At a cool $1k a month in board (which is ASSUREDLY less than the tower a few blocks from here), you’re pulling down a quarter of a million in income each year. It’s a money printing press. I’d need a second tower just like it to swim around in all the money I’m making Scrooge McDuck style. But really, what am I doing for the neighborhood? Not enough.

    Maybe the issue is too personal to me. I certainly think there are worse ideas than an of these (notice that none of my proposals are to put an office building back in).

  12. Joe says:

    The building has a lot of potential, relatively cheap shell of a building that can be made into whatever the buyer can think of. The problem is not only the Cadillac Hotel next door, but the midtown site across the street. Who knows when there will be activity across Elm and not just dusty lots. I’m not the most trusting of the City’s ability to competently redevelop the site into a downtown urban center a suburban abortion to make the p-towners feel comfortable in the scary city.

  13. Arqtet says:

    The Cadillac Hotel is the biggest road block to any development proposal for this building. Having student housing next to that building/use would be extremely problematic. Disconnected parking makes apartment uses a stretch also. This is a really tough site, but I give the City credit for doing the most it can to make this RFP viable for a potential user/developer.

  14. J. Richard Chase says:

    Re: 88 Elm Street’s origins and early history:

    This building was contracted by and constructed for Rochester Hospital Service (Blue Cross) in 1970. This location was chosen because it could be attached to the then-presently owned and occupied building at 41 Chestnut Street. It was a fully equipped, modern office building, with three elevators. In 1980, it was realized that the building had been outgrown.

    During the relocation investigation alternatives were considered, including moving outside of downtown Rochester. Max Farish became involved and proposed that he buy the Edwards building and convert it to offices for Blue Cross, The final choice was made when Mr. Farish agreed to buy the existing building at 88 Elm Street and lease the remodeled Edwards Building to Blue Cross for a 10-year period. This proposal was accepted and the move was completed in approximately 1981, leaving 88 Elm Street empty. Mr. Farish became ill and the building’s future was involved in his many real estate enterprises and seemed to have been forgotten. This is all I know about it, as I retired from Blue Cross in 1986.

  15. Matthew Denker says:

    I saw this. I wish them the best with it. I’m sorry the timing wasn’t right for me to be able to propose.


Post a Comment...



  You May Also Like...
  Most Popular...
  1. Boy Lived in NYC Subway for 11 Days
  2. Pot Holds Bowie in Rochester
  3. Inside Rochester's Terrence Tower
  4. University of Rochester's Lost Swimming Pool
  5. Rewind: High Speed Rail Art from 2002
  6. The Old Barber House
  7. Rochester Mafia, the Banana King, and the Infamous "Barrel Murder"
  8. Rochester's 7th Most Beautiful Train Station in the U.S.
  9. RGRTA Digs Up Rochester's Old RKO Palace Theater
  10. Subway Tunnel To Be Filled. This time they mean it. Probably.
  11. A 100 Ton Discovery at the Port of Rochester
  12. 1906 Panorama and More Old Photos of Rochester, NY
  13. Rundel Library on Ghost Hunters: 'Due Date with Death'
  14. Exploring the Caves of Rochester, NY
  15. Never Before Seen Photos of RKO Palace Theater
  16. Genesee Brewery to Demolish This Building
  17. What Is This Strange Water Feature?
  18. Rochester 2020 - Rail vs. Fast Buses?
  19. Rochester's Case for a Streetcar
  20. Irondequoit Square
  21. Drunk Woman Nearly Flattened by Boston Subway Train
  22. Rochester's (inspiring) Old Railroad Stations
  23. ROC Low Line: A (new) Proposal for Rochester's Abandoned Subway
  24. A Better Bus Stop Sign for Rochester
  25. Inside the Iola Tuberculosis Sanatorium
  26. Give Me City Gate
  27. History of Seabreeze Amusement Park
  28. Inside the Pulaski Library
  29. A Tour of Rochester's Times Square Building
  30. Loving Life at Erie Harbor Apartments
  31. Does Rochester Have a Parking Problem?
  32. Fortified Rochester
  33. Imagine, Rochester's Historic Brewery Square
  34. Manhattan Square Park Mural Erased
  35. Who is Spaceman?

Topics

  • Art + Culture (68)
  • Events (65)
  • Freebies (9)
  • Interviews (29)
  • Opinion (80)
  • Reader Submitted Stories (78)
  • Rochester Destinations (58)
  • Rochester Gifts (14)
  • Rochester History (153)
  • Rochester Homes for Sale (4)
  • Rochester Images (162)
  • Rochester News (220)
  • Rochester Subway (42)
  • Rochester Subway Stories (12)
  • Subways Around the Globe (9)
  • Train/Railroad Stuff (34)
  • Transit + Infrastructure (135)
  • Uncategorized (1)
  • Urban Development (169)
  • Urban Exploration (32)

  • Rochester Subway Information

    Get Email Updates...
    Stay up-to-date on Rochester-related stories, artifacts, and ideas that you won't find in the mainstream news. Totally free, never spammy, and you can unsubscribe at any time.


    ¤ See Past Issues
    ¤ Our Privacy Policy

    Links

    Get Involved...

    ¤ Reconnect Rochester

    Related Blogs...

    ¤ A Town Square
    ¤ Moderate Urban Champ
    ¤ Our Tiny Earth
    ¤ The Rochesterian
    ¤ RocVille
    ¤ Rust Wire

    Resources...

    ¤ RochesterDowntown.com
    ¤ Rochester's Public Library
    ¤ ROCwiki



    Want to Advertise
    on RocSubway?
    Drop us a line.


    Other ways to follow RochesterSubway.com...

    Subscribe for Email Updates

    Email

    Become a Facebook Fan

    Facebook

    Follow Us on Twitter

    Twitter

    RSS Feed

    RSS

    Questions + Comments

    For questions about the Rochester Subway Poster or about your order, please email info@rochestersubway.com.

    Want to SAVE Shipping Costs?
    Buy the Subway Posters at these local shops...

    About the Rochester Subway Poster...

    ¤ Parkleigh [ ...map it ]
    ¤ Poster Art [ ...map it ]
    ¤ Rochester Public Library Store [ ...map it ]
    ¤ The Center at High Falls gift shop [ ...map it ]

    ¤ Rochester Subway Poster Press Release
    ¤ Article by Otto M. Vondrak
    ¤ Design by Mike Governale

    More About The Rochester Subway

    Help Support...

    ¤ Rochester Subway (Wikipedia)
    ¤ The End of the Line - Rochester's Subway, DVD
    ¤ Abandoned Subway Photos (Opacity.us)
    ¤ Walking the Rails (YouTube Video)

    ¤ Friends of RochesterSubway.com