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16 Responses to “Filling In: 88 Elm”

  1. Tricia Monigle says:

    Love all three ideas. I do agree with you about the hotel idea even though it is probably needed with RIT and the University so close by. Also, love this page and all you do with it. Thank you for keeping the memories of Rochester alive!!!

  2. matt r says:

    I always wondered about 88 Elm Street and why it stood there empty. (The cynic in me should have known the City of Rochester owned it.) It’ll be tough to turn it into anything profitable with the Cadillac right beside it and the type of residents it attracts and to which it caters.

    I like your apartment concept best. However, I’d like to see the first floor (and possible second floor as well) turned into a grocery store. If we’re going to have more and more downtown housing, someone needs to take the risk of opening a decent store with fresh vegetables and toilet paper. 88 Elm is centrally located to Sibley (with its planned residential component), Temple Building, East End, and downtown offices for prepared foods (at lunch time for workers and nighttime for downtown-living residents) and groceries.

    I know I’m describing the former Wegmans at Midtown, but we’re on the cusp of hitting that tipping point for a viable grocery store downtown.

    Matt Denker: I like your contributions to Rochester Subway!

  3. Matthew Denker says:

    First, thank you both very much! Second, I think some sort of grocery in the Sibley Building would be better. Not only is there more square footage, but it has all of those great interior walls that can be covered with shelving without hurting the street (see the recent College Town conversation for more on this). There’s also the possibility for a much larger store in the podium of Midtown Tower. I must admit that I do not know Buckingham’s plans for the larger, lower floors.

  4. jimmy says:

    I like that first picture. It makes me think big city! Apartments would be cool and so would the other two ideas

  5. Martin Wright says:

    Building was build in 1920 per rochester gis. I remember hearing about the last owner destroying the pipes and electric before the city took it so that it wouldn’t be turn key. Also if you search good with a proxy search you will find cool newspapers from the 30’s and 40’s about business in the building.

    In google search “88 Elm St”+”rochester ny”

  6. John K says:

    How about cowork space? Maker spaces, artist spaces? Think Hungerford, Village gate, and High Falls Cowork spaces. Not sure if the market is already saturated in these areas, but it would only require the basic electrical and plumbing installation and the rest can be put together by the tenants.

  7. Matthew Denker says:

    Hi John, this is an good idea, but makes for boring floorplans to show off.

    I’m not sure that the market is saturated, but the income from such an operation is generally low. This creates economic problems with supporting the ongoing maintenance of a skyscraper.

    There are other properties more suitable to coworking space, is I guess where the argument is going. That said, there is the possibility to incorporate site specific amenities, such as coworking space for students in the dorm plan.

    Additionally, because only office space is a high enough intensity use to demand 3 elevators for 12 floors. It is possible to split the building into a few floors of one use, serviced by one elevator, and a few floors of something else serviced by the second/others. In this way, you might be able to set aside a floor or two for coworking space and “subsidize” it with the other floors.

    This will work better with students or a hotel, and less well with residents.

  8. Irene says:

    Re Grocery store
    There IS a grocery store downtown, only half a mile (11 minute walk) from 88 Elm – Abundance Coop has fresh produce, toilet paper, dairy, bread, frozen meat and fish, and most other things one needs. I do agree Sibley would be a good spot for a larger grocery, or even one of the smaller urban Target stores that they put into historic beloved buildings.

    Re student housing
    I am curious on why this is your least favorite use. One of the things downtown needs more of is life on the street at night and weekends, and students seem to provide that in other cities. Maybe grad student apartments would be better than actual dorms though.

  9. Irene says:

    Re Next to Cadillac Hotel
    The Cadillac is certainly not a plus as it is, but has always struck me as having great possibilities. Imagine a retro-cool cocktail lounge with hotel or apartments above – keeping the funky old Cadillac sign. I heard there was a plan to stop using it as overflow homeless housing so maybe the next step will be some positive development there.

  10. Jason Haremza says:

    Never believe the building’s date on the City of Rochester’s geographic information system (GIS) or most real estate listings. These dates are provided by the property assessors office and are only the best guess of whoever is doing the assessment.

    There is no historical research backing any of them up. For example, the Academy Building at 13 South Fitzhugh was really built in 1873 but the City’s GIS lists it as 1930.

  11. Matthew Denker says:

    So I guess my biggest issue with student housing is that while it makes the most money for the building’s owner, it creates the least economic activity (hotel) or stability (apartments) for the area. I mean, if it were my building, and I was going purely for profits, I’d kill to have it be student housing. Let’s be honest you’re looking at 20+ students a floor. With a dozen floors, it’s about 240 beds. At a cool $1k a month in board (which is ASSUREDLY less than the tower a few blocks from here), you’re pulling down a quarter of a million in income each year. It’s a money printing press. I’d need a second tower just like it to swim around in all the money I’m making Scrooge McDuck style. But really, what am I doing for the neighborhood? Not enough.

    Maybe the issue is too personal to me. I certainly think there are worse ideas than an of these (notice that none of my proposals are to put an office building back in).

  12. Joe says:

    The building has a lot of potential, relatively cheap shell of a building that can be made into whatever the buyer can think of. The problem is not only the Cadillac Hotel next door, but the midtown site across the street. Who knows when there will be activity across Elm and not just dusty lots. I’m not the most trusting of the City’s ability to competently redevelop the site into a downtown urban center a suburban abortion to make the p-towners feel comfortable in the scary city.

  13. Arqtet says:

    The Cadillac Hotel is the biggest road block to any development proposal for this building. Having student housing next to that building/use would be extremely problematic. Disconnected parking makes apartment uses a stretch also. This is a really tough site, but I give the City credit for doing the most it can to make this RFP viable for a potential user/developer.

  14. J. Richard Chase says:

    Re: 88 Elm Street’s origins and early history:

    This building was contracted by and constructed for Rochester Hospital Service (Blue Cross) in 1970. This location was chosen because it could be attached to the then-presently owned and occupied building at 41 Chestnut Street. It was a fully equipped, modern office building, with three elevators. In 1980, it was realized that the building had been outgrown.

    During the relocation investigation alternatives were considered, including moving outside of downtown Rochester. Max Farish became involved and proposed that he buy the Edwards building and convert it to offices for Blue Cross, The final choice was made when Mr. Farish agreed to buy the existing building at 88 Elm Street and lease the remodeled Edwards Building to Blue Cross for a 10-year period. This proposal was accepted and the move was completed in approximately 1981, leaving 88 Elm Street empty. Mr. Farish became ill and the building’s future was involved in his many real estate enterprises and seemed to have been forgotten. This is all I know about it, as I retired from Blue Cross in 1986.

  15. Matthew Denker says:

    I saw this. I wish them the best with it. I’m sorry the timing wasn’t right for me to be able to propose.


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