RochesterSubway.com : Back to Main Street

Back to Main Street

September 28th, 2012

The image above was printed in the Rochester Herald on October 10, 1908. This was Main Street looking east from the Four Corners on a busy day in October. The sidewalks are thronged with pedestrians. Several traffic police are standing at various spots in the intersection. A cluster of westbound trolleys, one labeled “Plymouth” and the other “Saratoga”, have stopped in their tracks. A few people are waiting to board, and others are crossing the street in front of the stopped cars. Several wagons, some covered, are traveling along the street. But then the trolley tracks were ripped up…

Smooth shiny asphalt went down and it stretched all the way out towards gleaming new suburbs. And so went the people. Allow traffic to flow freely and uninhibited, they said. Remove these dirty old buildings and make room for parking! Replace these store fronts with glass towers! All of this, they said, would revitalize our downtown.

Today we sit around and reminisce. And we ask ourselves, ‘where have all the people gone?’ This is surely a comedy. Oh well. We might as well have a good laugh at ourselves. Stop me if you’ve heard this one before…

“Hey man, remember when these streets
used to be filled with people?”

“Aw you said it bro. Traffic sucked.”

HAA Ha Ha Ha… heh heh… uhhh. WAAA WAAA WAAAAAH!

Ok, let’s get serious for a moment. If we want to repopulate our city, we’re going to have make the kinds of public investments that we made during the 20th century, only in reverse. An article in the USA Today reminds us that while our many downtowns are enjoying robust population growth , it has not come on its own:

Government incentives such as giving land away to encourage redevelopment lured investors. At the same time, the Millennial generation of young professionals and empty-nester Baby Boomers created powerful marketing demand for housing in urban neighborhoods where they could walk to work or entertainment. In cities such as Salt Lake City, new rail lines created pockets of development around transit stops.

“People recognize the lower cost of living near things” says Ilana Preuss, vice president and chief of staff at Smart Growth America. Let’s wake up Rochester. The time to capitalize on this emerging market is NOW.

Tags: Main Street, old photos of Rochester, Rochester, Rochester history, Rochester NY, vintage postcard, vintage views

This entry was posted on Friday, September 28th, 2012 at 8:28 am and is filed under Rochester History, Rochester Images, Transit + Infrastructure, Urban Development. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

70 Responses to “Back to Main Street”

Patrick says:

September 28, 2012 at 9:15 am

…and when they moved out to the suburbs, the same thing happened there. Honeoye Falls. Then- http://www.unionstarmasons.org/picture/hotel_1.jpg
Honeoye Falls. Now- http://img.groundspeak.com/waymarking/display/328adf14-55d0-46e3-bfc9-09d75f1ef392.jpg
RochesterSubway.com says:

September 28, 2012 at 11:29 am

@Patrick, great point… old Main Street towns like Honeoye Falls experienced the same draining out that cities like Rochester did, albeit on a smaller scale. The gleaming new suburbs I’m referring to would be those tract housing developments to the north of Honeoye and on the fringes of Rochester. The business parks, the malls and strip malls set up to serve those tracts. The highways that literally ran over city neighborhoods to get people out there fast. It was all enabled by government policy. And we’ll all be paying higher and higher prices to maintain this lifestyle as the years go by.
schlageter says:

September 28, 2012 at 3:02 pm

At risk of sounding Raaaacist, the reality for Rochester is the same as many other large cities, Detroit, Memphis, Buffalo, Birmingham. It is Black people which drove those folks who lived, worked, and frequented Main Street out deep into the burbs. Black dysfunction, which manifests itself in the form of crime and rabid consumption of services without payment into the system, ravaged downtown rochester. Business followed. Who dared bring their family to Midtown plaza by the mid 90s anymore? Hard for some folks to hear? you bet. by thats the truth.
RochesterSubway.com says:

September 28, 2012 at 4:44 pm

@Schlageter, first, thank you for having the guts to float those thoughts out there as I’m sure you are not the only one who has thought these same thoughts. To use a terrible pun, I believe things aren’t as “black & white” as you have laid out.

Firstly, white flight was a result of social dysfunction on many levels. We all know racism did not end with the Civil War, and in the decades leading up to the Civil Rights movement, one could argue that whites were actually the most dysfunctional ingredient in the great American “melting pot.”

Dysfunction is excluding certain types of people from government. Dysfunction is denying certain types of people access to the same quality schools and neighborhoods as you and your kids. Dysfunction is maintaining segregation in public schools, transportation, cultural institutions, shops and restaurants. Dysfunction is leading entire generations of people to believe they are inferior to you.

My point is, when a nation marginalizes an entire segment of its population to the extent America did for so long, how could we expect anything but negative results? The urban race riots of the 1960’s were a culmination of decades (or centuries) of negative treatment, denial of basic human rights, and access to quality services.

And so what did we (whites) do? Enabled by government policies which reflowed infrastructure monies toward new white suburbs, we picked up and left. We took our business and jobs elsewhere. In reality, sir, we should have done the exact opposite. The damage we caused will take generations to reverse. But you have face facts before you can make a positive contribution.

Do you disagree?
TempleTank says:

September 28, 2012 at 11:53 pm

It’s definitely true that something needs to happen downtown to make people not only want to go there but actually stay there. I actually think it’s getting a bit better, or at least they’re trying. Granted some parts of the city are always going to be better than the others. I think the East End and that area of the city is obviously quite nice. Maybe a further look into how those areas developed would help an understanding of how to revitalize other parts of the city.

I used to never ever go downtown. Now I find myself finding cool areas in the city that I didn’t know really existed before. High Falls is a great place. Corn Hill has gotten much better from what I remember it being. It’s like what is in the East End is being transplanted elsewhere to get the other areas thriving again. So really it ends up being, if you like the East End and those neighborhoods, you’ll like how the city is slowly being improved.

Linking to the point about how the city and the trolleys used to be. I think that’s a big part of it too. In Germany I know that the center of the city is the place to live. Suburbs aren’t as popular as they are here in the US. But cities in Germany have extensive mass transit systems, way more developed than here. So we just find ourselves in a rut. Not big enough to really prosper economically from a mass transit system, but yet still needing something that feeds people downtown instead of wisk them away like the barren inner loop and 490.

But what do I know, all of my facts are just based purely on observation not any real data. I just want a thriving downtown center at some point.
RochesterSubway.com says:

September 29, 2012 at 9:19 am

@TempleTank, observations are often the best data. I agree, we need to recreate what has been done in all of those other neighborhoods you mention. It just so happens that all of those areas are designated “Preservation Districts” (except for the East End which is directly adjacent to the East Ave Preservation District).

Is this a coincidence? Probably not. Development in these neighborhoods are bound to an intelligent set of design guidelines which generally help make (or keep) these places more attractive… more of a draw for people to come and spend time. That in turn attracts more businesses.

From my ‘observations’ these preservation districts then also help uplift surrounding neighborhoods. Of course in addition to design guidelines, these districts also have access to special tax credits and incentives for rehabilitating properties.

Is a preservation district an option for Main Street? I have no idea. These are just my observations 😉

PS – a downtown circulator system (like a trolley) should absolutely be on our list of improvements for downtown. This would help alleviate our insatiable need for parking. A MUST if we want to add new, dense, development.
schlageter says:

October 2, 2012 at 10:25 am

Actually, I do disagree. what you call “White Dysfunction” was simply a rational response to activities and behaviors that were predictable (and predicted)once the keys to the asylum are handed to the inmates. You use the white guilt infused cliches of “good schools” etc. What makes schools “good” and “bad”? there is a close correlation to IQ and skin color. I’d bet City schools in Rochester spend more per capita on each child than any of the suburbs. what are the results?

White flight comes from crime and the desire to remove oneself and ones family from negative influences and bahviors. Do you think people WANT to sit in traffic as they commute from locales farther and farther away from the city neighborhoods where they once grew up and their ancestors lived?

Its simple, really. the contributors and builders of the city, faced with enormous political pressure, gave up, and moved themselves to freer, safer communities. Their taxes followed, as did their employers. A dysfunctional, incompetent, corrupt, grievance-filled gang moved in. They have the city all to themselves now. And what have the done with it? Main Street is a dump. Entire sections of former working class neighborhoods from Clifford Ave to Portland Ave and the west side are now wastelands. They ar unable to create businesses, jobs, tax revenue without milking the suburbs. The only city neighborhoods that succeed are the white filled strips of Monroe and Park Ave.

As you say, obervations make for great data. go observe what the inheritors of Rochester’s neighborhoods have done with them. My analysis is universal: we can look at Buffalo, Detroit, Cleveland. All northern powerhouses, once chock full of healthy neighborhoods and businesses (and no doubt once the birthplaces of Union troops singing the “Battle Hymn of the Republic
” as they fought for “freedom”).

Lets move to East St Louis, St Louis, Memphis, and Birmingham. The results are they same. As they are in Haiti, as they are in post-Rhodesia Zimbabwe, as they are in the new “free” South Africa.

If whites can be blamed for anything, it is the cultural Marxist white guilt canard that results in otherwise intelligent folks like you to disengage from what your own eyes and ears tell you and believe the utter rubbish of egalitarianism.
RochesterSubway.com says:

October 2, 2012 at 11:31 am

@schlageter, I think you missed my point and we’re going to have agree to completely disagree on this one.
schlageter says:

October 2, 2012 at 11:57 am

“I” missed the point? no sir, I beleive i got your point, as stated:

“My point is, when a nation marginalizes an entire segment of its population to the extent America did for so long, how could we expect anything but negative results? The urban race riots of the 1960′s were a culmination of decades (or centuries) of negative treatment, denial of basic human rights, and access to quality services. ”

I simply dont accept this premise as logical or common sense. That you wish to leave the subject there after confronted by irrefutable “observational data” and factual evidence tells me you don’t wish to have inconvient truths interfere with your ideology. I understand that political and racial realities are not the point of this blog.

However, until you confront those realities and recognize that no cash infusion, or trolley system, or artifical “redevelopment” scheme, or apology for slavery, or wealth redistribution is ever going to bring our city back, the easier it will be to come up with real world solutions.
RochesterSubway.com says:

October 2, 2012 at 12:06 pm

Political and racial realities are absolutely part of the topics covered in this blog. But I can’t have a debate with someone who writes off an entire chunk of the city and the people who live there. Have you offered some kind of solution in your remarks?
schlageter says:

October 2, 2012 at 2:03 pm

Before a constructive solution can be offered, one must first admit there is a problem. I am not sure you are able to grasp the enormity of the problem and that real, tangible solutions fall outside of what is currently acceptable public policy.

Why can’t you have a debate with someone who “writes off an entire chunk of the city”? do you think those “people who live there” havent written you off? you think they give 2 shits about adding parks, and museums, and trolleys to the city? you think they wouldnt slit your throat for walking down their street? you sir exist to them for one reason: money. either indirectly, by financing their continued entitlements, or directly, by bleeding your heart to them and handing them a buck because their “car ran out of gas and they are just trying to get to work”.

Now, if you truly want to embrace solutions beyond cash infusions and pandering, I will tell you what will work. Please let me know.
RochesterSubway.com says:

October 2, 2012 at 2:08 pm

Don’t wait for me. By all means, the floor is yours.
schlageter says:

October 2, 2012 at 2:14 pm

Before I do, which will come later, i promise you, Im eager to hear which of the points I have raised thus far you believe are not true or that you have disagreement with, and which you feel have merit.
RochesterSubway.com says:

October 2, 2012 at 2:25 pm

It’s not any one particular point; I disagree with your entire outlook. Right from the beginning you name yourself after some Nazi hero named “schlageter” and then start off by saying “at the risk of sounding raaaacist” and then everything after that sounds racist to me. I don’t even know where to begin. So you might as well just go on your rant and I’ll just watch from the sidelines. Ok… begin…
schlageter says:

October 2, 2012 at 3:02 pm

If what you think I am saying is a rant, than you are obviously a close minded idiot.

And are any of the “racist” points I made untruthful? If so, which ones?
RochesterSubway.com says:

October 2, 2012 at 4:40 pm

First of all, the name calling is unnecessary. Second, your argument as a whole is racist. It doesn’t matter whether your individual points are truthful or not, and I’m not going to bother looking them up on factcheck.org.

You blame black people for society’s problems and then you construct a series of “points” to affirm your argument. That’s the definition of racism. It’s foolish and it’s dangerous. And I’m done with it.
schlageter says:

October 2, 2012 at 4:46 pm

So blaming white people for society’s problems, as you infer in your first response to me is ok, as is calling me names “racist”? (nothing kills an arguement like that one), but to cite real world examples and use term “idiot” is not?

keep in mind, i didnt call you an idiot, I implied that you were if you thought my analysis was simply a rant.

And “it doesnt matter if my…points are truthful or not”? what does matter then?

How about we all back down from our keyboards and discuss this rationally?
RochesterSubway.com says:

October 2, 2012 at 6:48 pm

Listen, I don’t think you’re going to convince me personally, but if you can put your entire argument including your proposed solutions AND sign your real name to it, I will publish your write up on this site and we’ll listen to what readers think. I will keep my comments to myself I promise. That’s my offer.
schlageter says:

October 2, 2012 at 8:14 pm

what’s the point if you’re so ideologically blinded that you refuse to acknowledge the truth and reject them without any fact based rebuttal? Keep dreaming of your multicultural utopia. Its all gonna end in tears for you.

Im.sorry if inconvenient truths upset you. Im sure learning about them is difficult for you to process. Its happened to all of us when the blinders come off
RochesterSubway.com says:

October 2, 2012 at 9:42 pm

Seriously? I’m giving you an opportunity to put a serious solution on the table and possibly change my mind. Not to mention a much broader audience than just the one or two people reading this comments section. “What’s the point?” That’s what I figured.
UsedToLiveThere says:

October 3, 2012 at 6:16 am

Wow, schlageter, Man, I grew up in the thick of it – downtown all the time, lived in a fairly yick area of the city, and I sure as hell had plenty of trouble from black kids. Bad trouble some.

And I’ve watched it worsen as the years passed since I got out of there. Not just downtown, either. Whole swaths of the city (as you say) now just awful with crime, decay, poverty.

These are bad things, and deserve critical words. But to blame it on ‘blacks’? LOL. Dude, you obviously live in never-never land.

Skin color is fucking irrelevant. Always has been, always will be.

Poverty, addiction, really shitty parenting as a result of really shitty parenting, really stupid political solutions to fix prior really stupid political solutions to problems result in building a perception of futility among these poor, ostracism from the greater community (some deserved some not).. Oh hell, on and ON the reasons the poor act poorly are legion. But SKIN COLOR?

Shaddap.
UsedToLiveThere says:

October 3, 2012 at 6:22 am

Oh, and I have to say it ’cause I’ve no idea when I’ll revisit this page:

WTF?
A fancy new bridge?
Multiple million dollar shiny fancy BRIDGE?

THIS shows what Rochester cares about.

Paint a loaf of shite white, and it’s still a loaf of shite.
Gespenst88 says:

October 3, 2012 at 8:49 am

The denial that some folks live in is every bit as restrictive as an actual prison cell. The threadbare excuses, the clichés, the outright refusal to accept what your eyes, your ears, your intellect tell you: only Caucasians are capable of sustaining modern industrial urban civilization, which is their creation. Others, least of all negroids, are incapable of sustaining and maintaining the order, hierarchy, infrastructure and sense of community required for the modern city to function. We see this time and time again in Africa– as the legacy of “colonialism” dissipates, which was supposed to be a good thing, the assets created by the genius of those “oppressors” falls into disrepair, the city begins to falter, no thought is given to the near future (let alone future generations), chaos ensues as the the carcass of a once great city is picked clean by the bestial, parasitic hordes. Mogadishu is not an anomaly; it is the future of any city handed over to those orcs. The former Rhodesia is not far behind, and ultimately ZA will follow.
RochesterSubway.com says:

October 3, 2012 at 9:10 am

@Gespenst, @schlageter, there’s not a doubt in my mind that you two know each other. Highly entertaining. You guys should take this show on the road.
schlageter says:

October 3, 2012 at 9:18 am

“Skin color is fucking irrelevant. Always has been, always will be.”….

You know, I must admit it is hilarious to watch the disengenuous folks here squeem and squirm around when the obvious truths stare them in the face. Who said anything about Skin Color? Im talking “Content of Character” here.

Lets look at FACTS? y’all know what those are, right?

Ask yourselves (if you have the stones to here on this blog)a few questions:

Since we all know blacks make up only 12% of the US population, and whites about 67%, and since “skin color” is irrelevent”, then it stands to reason that we should expect poverty levels, crime rates, school performance, etc to be the same per capita, right, (especially in places where there is no “legacy of slavery” or Jim Crow)?

If so, then…

Why do “good schools” and “test scores” correlate directly with the number of black students?
Why, despite the countless billions in tax dollars transferred from the suburbs to the city to support schools, magnet schools, afterschool programs, tutoring, midnight hoops, vocational training, job assistance, etc, etc, are city school performance metrics still far below the suburbs? why do whites in poor city schools still outperform blacks in suburban schools?

Why do “bad neighborhoods” correlate directly with black resident density?

Why do businesses not thrive as they once did when the demographics were different on Main St, or Clinton Ave, or Portland, or Genessee St?

Why doesnt Wegmans take advantage of the massive lack of grocery stores and supermarkets in the city and open up new stores in the city and cater to the enormous number of potential customers there, especially with no competition?

Why are the local pages of the D&C not filled with white names and faces for violent crimes–rape, murder, aggrevated assault at the numbers black faces are?

If poverty is to blame, why don’t the crime statistics of Appalachia–West VA, Eastern KY, etc, mirror any minority-majority area?

Why don’t caucasians (or asians) routinely partake in the violent “flash mob” epidemics occurring almost daily in this country? why are they exclusively black phenomena?

Why are sections of downtown Rochester similar to Detroit, Chicago, Birmingham, Memphis, Compton, Port au Prince, Harare, and Lagos?

How is it that sections of the midwest, towns like Joplin, MO and countries like Japan are able to recover from massive storms and unprecedented destruction, yet, despite BILLIONS of dollars in aid and assistance (from whitey), New Orleans and Haiti are still shitholes, rife with violent crime, corruption, and lack of basic services years after the event?

Again, if you have the cojones to look at what is posted, answer these questions objectively. Methinks you would all rather be personally devoured by a gang, er, sorry, “flash mob”, of “teens” and “youths” than admit your ideas and ideals have failed and are nothing but wishful thinking.
schlageter says:

October 3, 2012 at 9:21 am

“@Gespenst, @schlageter, there’s not a doubt in my mind that you two know each other. Highly entertaining. You guys should take this show on the road.”

Wish I did…he certainly sounds like an honest guy. You on the other hand, refuse, as most disengenuous liberals do, to even acknowledge facts or the meat of a an argument. you are left with nothing but cheap dodges and irrelevant commentary. Care to dispute any point that he made?
Matt says:

October 3, 2012 at 9:47 am

I might point out that some of the nations most brilliant men were not white. Booker T. Washington, George Washington Carver, Anthony Jordan, Fredrick Douglass, I could go on but I won’t. I will also say that some of the most moral Men are not white.Some of the most gheto- like doers and thinkers I personally know are suburban whites. Michael Peace, a personal friend says in one of his songs “the real ghetto life is inside of you.” If one race abandoned downtown to flee another race, this does not vindicate the ones who fled. The truth is not the color of any resident’s skin but the color of their Heart. If we want to improve downtown Rochester, the best place to start is peoples minds and hearts. We need more action from local churches, followed by the arts and finally neighborhood pride, but not in sequence, but rather all at once. And it starts with you. If your reading this, change begins inside of you.
CM says:

October 3, 2012 at 9:58 am

Getting back to the issue of flight to the suburbs, this was my life as a post WWII baby boomer. Cities in 1950 were old, run-down, dirty, noisy, and crowded. Not much had been done to them and for them since the 1929 stock market crash, the depression, and WWII. The millions of returning GI’s were eager to get married and start a new life and put the horrors of war behind them. There was abundance of cheap farmland and aging farmers whose kids were in college on the GI Bill; there was cheap gasoline whose price hadn’t changed much since the 1920′; and there was a manufacturing economic boom as we helped supply a war-ravaged world, that created middle class wealth that is now a fond memory. It was a moment in time for people to get that little vine covered cottage out in the country. Cities were more or less left to those who could not move to the suburbs due to lack of money and, sad to say, prejudice against their moving there.

It worked for a while, but then land prices went up, gasoline got expensive, and those high paying manufacturing jobs went overseas or simply vanished when higher technology took over.

Today, it is not easy to maintain that vaunted suburban life style. Cities are coming back, although we see how hard it is in this new economy of fewer jobs to replace those lost.
schlageter says:

October 3, 2012 at 9:59 am

“I might point out that some of the nations most brilliant men were not white. Booker T. Washington, George Washington Carver, Anthony Jordan, Fredrick Douglass, I could go on but I won’t. I will also say that some of the most moral Men are not white.”

I completely agree with you, Matt. Those are some strong and morally upright individuals. I admire and respect them.

But we are talking general concepts here, not individual anecdotes of the 1%.

How has all the love, outreach, and cooperation, including incredible amounts of time, money, blood, and treasure, worked out so far? Why are these “communities” regressing instead of improving? Why, despite all the handouts, the compassion, the wealth transference, the acceptance of sub-par performance and the tacit acceptance of many, many crime victims, is whitey still targeted as the enemy?
Lori says:

October 3, 2012 at 11:20 am

Yikes! I feel like I’m at a Klan meeting! DITTO to everything “Usedtolivethere” said about,”Poverty, addiction, really shitty parenting as a result of really shitty parenting, really stupid political solutions to fix prior really stupid political solutions to problems result in building a perception of futility among these poor, ostracism from the greater community (some deserved some not).. Oh hell, on and ON the reasons the poor act poorly …”

How about a lifetime of feeling persecuted? Both actual and assumed. No doubt there is an undercurrent of racism in our society and white people cannot pretend to understand what that feels like. Give it another few generations and that mindset will shift (both inside and outside of the black population you are referring to). It is still highly prevalent in the South. White people openly refer to black people as “those people”. Really? It could take more than a century to get that ignorance out of the South. But as far as ROCHESTER goes …. There will always be people who want to get over on someone …. Take the easy way out …. Collect services they don’t deserve….. rob someone for their own benefit…. Sell something that doesn’t belong to them….. not feed their kids because they lost the money at OTB …. or smoked it …. the list is ENDLESS …. But it is NOT because they are BLACK! I believe it is environmental. You are guaranteed to find good, law abiding, hard working, BLACK people in the worst neighborhoods in the city. They lock their doors and stay out of the windows so they aren’t shot by a stray bullet.

Are poor people the way they are because of their environment or is the environment the way it is because of the people that live there? Go out to Pittsford. The standards of the WHITE people that live there is to keep themselves away from the city folk they do not want to associate with. Also because they have the money to live in an area that is far more expensive – and it is their RIGHT to do that. The people in the city may be used to living there because they always have. Maybe they are scared to move to unfamiliar territory… but could afford to. More likely – they live there because that is what they can afford. Oh – and test scores in the schools? Kids who come from impoverished homes may not eat – may not sleep cause of fighting that can go on – may not have a parent with enough ambition to force them to go (and stay) in school – much less force them to do their homework with focus and correct it with them. It’s STILL all about poverty. Yeah – money may not buy happiness but it’s nice to feel safe and secure, well fed and understand the rules of the road your parents should be teaching you. Launching a good person on society is pretty much the main objective of a good parent. Never underestimate how hard that is and ABSOLUTELY lots of people shouldn’t even BE parents!

Perhaps those parents are just struggling to get by and are happy they can pay their rent and feed their kids. They aren’t thrilled about living next to a crack dealer or someone fencing hot goods but they don’t have the energy to try and find someplace else to live. They might happen to be black but they might not. If you took a black baby and gave it to a well off non-black family, who loved and raised them to have their standards and ideals and that child never had to wonder if they would eat or have their stressed out parent beat the living daylights out of them…. See what you would get in the end.

There will also always be ignorant, narrow-minded, uber-intellectual people who can justify their elite perspective. They will also live with their own kind because they are accepted by like-minded people.
schlageter says:

October 3, 2012 at 11:59 am

“If you took a black baby and gave it to a well off non-black family, who loved and raised them to have their standards and ideals and that child never had to wonder if they would eat or have their stressed out parent beat the living daylights out of them…. See what you would get in the end.”

really? then why don’t these kids perform as well as average white kids in the suburban settings they are placed in?

take a look at this, from the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education (a Klan site, Lori?)

http://www.jbhe.com/latest/index012209_p.html

I’ll summarize it for you. Average Mean Score for whites with incomes UNDER $20,000 (Twenty Thousand): 978
Average Mean Score for blacks with incomes OVER $200, 000 (Two Hundred Thousand): 981

“How about a lifetime of feeling persecuted? Both actual and assumed.”

Really? Asians werent perescuted? Vietnamese, Camobodians, Chinese? How come they come here with no language knowledge, no assistance, and to a foreign culture that ridicules them, and they outperform whites and all others, and dont commit crimes either? care to answer?

“Give it another few generations and that mindset will shift”.

Seriously? Its now been 147 years since the Civil War ( in which Rochester boys died in droves for “freedom”) and 47 years since the civil rights bills. (remember, there was no slavery or Jim Crow in Rochester). why are conditions getting worse?

How many more innocent people have to be victims of violent crime? Or are those “acceptable losses” in the name of diversity?
schlageter says:

October 3, 2012 at 12:01 pm

“Yikes! I feel like I’m at a Klan meeting!”

PS Ive never been to one. I take it you have?
Brownstarr says:

October 3, 2012 at 12:48 pm

@Schlageter, people like YOU are why Rochester has failed
schlageter says:

October 3, 2012 at 12:53 pm

“@Schlageter, people like YOU are why Rochester has failed”…

yes yes! I commit crimes, and consume city, state and federal services, and foster children out of wedlock!

I burn down and rob neighborhood stores and make my street uninhabitable!

I disrupt my classrooms and fail every test, and am still advanced!

Yes! I am the reason for rochester’s failure!
CM says:

October 3, 2012 at 1:14 pm

Herr Schlageter is trolling this web site and getting you all upset with his remarks. It sounds like you all disagree with him, so you might just want to discuss other, more important aspects of the flight to the suburbs in the 50’s-80’s and the gradual returning to the cities since the 90’s.

It’s a fascinating topic, which does include racial issues, but is much broader than that.

I’m interested in learning from you all and what you think is happening.
Gespenst88 says:

October 3, 2012 at 2:30 pm

White flight occurs with predictable regularity because most white people have the good sense to move when conditons become intolerable and they are deprived of the means to remedy the problem. A bit of strange fruit served as a reminder to the more primitive types that certain things just would not be tolerated.
At a certain critical mass, blacks make a neighborhood or municipality unlivable. I keep hearing every excuse imaginable for why pretty much everywhere blacks are the dominant group sucks. You people hold fast to this notion that blacks are just like Caucasians as if it were religious dogma. Like religious dogma, you will not subject it to intellectual scrutiny because you know in your hearts that the evidence strongly suggests that the notion is false. I challenge you to identify one place on the planet that can objectively be described as a desirable place to live that was created by, administered, governed, policed and populated exclusively (or predominantly) by blacks. Where are these black success stories? A place not marred by violent crime, mayhem, bastard children, rampant venereal disease, endemic corruption, tribal/gang warfare, repression of minorities, retarded cultural practices (“raping an infant will cure me ub de AIdS”), filth, illiteracy, vereration of the “strongman” and an absurd lack of respect for private property?
As Jared Taylor presciently points out, if you want to see how society operates with blacks in control, simply look at any US prison.
Gulf War Vet 1967 says:

October 3, 2012 at 3:17 pm

WOW!!!! As a 45 year old white male who has served for 20 yrs in the military and am disabled because of said service; I AM APPALLED at this guy. It is obvious you sir are an “Educated Racist” who when confronted with rational debate, automatically defaults to, “why do white get blamed for everything?” mode. I agree some of your points have merit as others have said, but the TONE you use is disgusting and offensive. You must be a proclaimed NAZI with using that screen name. At present, YES, there is much dysfunction in the black communities of Rochester. But here’s the rub… What about all the whites who still live in those neighborhoods? What about the mixture of all the racial groups that call Rochester home? The reason people fled (people of all color by the way), was that they had the monetary means to move to the suburbs to get away from city living. It was force fed to us by TV, by magazines, government and the AD agencies to make them believe the suburbs “Is the place ya wanna be, so they packed up and moved to…Brighton, Henrietta, Victor, etc”. Our crime problem in Rochester is due to ineffective policing by the police dept, city hall and families of all creeds that were brainwashed into believing that disciplining your child and controlling their actions was wrong. Once we went to the system of NO CHILD SHOULD BE SPANKED” lifestyle… that again was pushed by society as a whole, we then ended up with wild children running the streets without supervision. The days of any adult “instructing a child’s behavior” was tamped out, because we know believed that no one has the right to say anything to my child. My child is special!!! That is where a portion of the decay of the cities comes from. It is not the whole problem, but merely one part of many, many reasons that people choose to “move to Beverly Hills”. The grass is always greener elsewhere we are led to believe. Here it is 2012 and even the suburbs are dealing with the same problems. People want to live rural now, because again… they are led to believe it is better and will solve all the problems they have. History repeats itself, time and time again and we refuse to learn any lessons from it. I say just quit listening or accepting this guys comments, until he can stand up and offer practical real solutions. Until he does, he is just still part of the problem.
The Andytecht says:

October 3, 2012 at 3:46 pm

Well, this has been quite a read-through. Most of this sounds like I’m listening to Fox News to be honest.

Aside from all of that nonsense, I think this is a very interesting a valid topic of conversation. I studied Architecture, and inherently, we studied the mass migrations of the general population between rural, urban, suburban, and so on.

There’s been a shift every hundred (give or take, of course) years through modern American history. The agricultural revolution, as we know from grade school, helped to successfully sustain large populations of people on our planet, the next step was science! The mechanization of farming was one of the great catalysts for the next phase. As the industrial revolution began, it not only allowed there to be a surplus of food grown by fewer people, it freed up those would-be farmers and allowed people to migrate to the great cities and start working in factories. The big American boom began – and things were nice, real nice.

From this point see CM’s earlier post (nailed it, man!)

And it is absolutely correct that our society is due for another transition. Being a recent college grad who was fortunate enough to gain a good full-time position in my field, I also understand the adversity that the “new” generation faces.

Many of my peers either did not go to college and are certainly not gaining a professional income -or they did get the chance to go to school, and are facing a crippling student debt – in either case, few young people have the financial resources to own a home in a suburbs, or can afford the cost of commuting.

This is relevant for a number of reasons, and applies to anyone of the working population, and generations to come. The impending extinction of fossil fuels (say what you will, kick and scream, tell me we should drill our “reserve fields”, or start hydrofracking, whatever – but we have to face the fact that they are going to run out. And it would be a hell of a lot wiser of us to invest in alternative energy sooner than the age of necessity.) and the very apparent rising costs of fuel, food, transportation, living, and dying for that matter – people started waking up and realizing that living an urban lifestyle is more effective for a myriad of reasons.

The culture is beginning to reflect that as well, more people walking, bicycling or using public transportation. Food co-ops and farmers markets are bringing products directly from the producer to the consumer. There’s a much greater demand for all aspects of sustainability, and re-urbanization – not to mention it’s really the smart thing to do. Post WWII America was all about gasoline and sheet metal. The automobile was once a symbol of freedom and financial well-being, and it’s now slowly becoming a dated icon and a big dollar sign for many owners, with little return on their investment.

Necessity always is the final straw, but what our government should be doing is anticipating this – by reinvesting in infrastructure, public transportation, good city schools with up-to-date facilities. And it should also be the responsibility of government at all levels to directly employ and collaborate with local architecture and planning firms. Through better design, we have better cities, and better cities lead to a happier, healthier, more productive population.
RochesterSubway.com says:

October 3, 2012 at 5:38 pm

Another local blog, Our Tiny Earth, posted a commentary about this very conversation today. .
redwing says:

October 3, 2012 at 6:00 pm

Lol you know it hits a nerve when someone brings up Fox News, as if you’ve ever tuned in. How about someone address the points those guys are making?
Patrick Chefalo says:

October 3, 2012 at 8:09 pm

The idiot (you know who I mean) has missed the historical context of the depopulation of city neighborhoods by their caucasian inhabitants. The white flight preceded the re-population of neighborhoods by minorities. The large houses with small yards and antique mechanicals no longer served the day-to-day aspirations of the upwardly mobile largely white middle class. As families matured, each child needed a home of their own, which were not even available in the then densely populated urban areas, and when the seniors could no longer keep up their large houses, they joined their children in suburbia, some sooner, some later. The lure of free parking at commercial establishments closer to the relocated population of shoppers stripped the downtown stores of their glamor, except at big holidays where the street level displays were still an attraction. Then the big houses with low values were split up for the poorer families, and the concentration of non-whites occurred.

If this is out of touch, give me some idea of an alternate explanation.
Justaguy says:

October 3, 2012 at 9:13 pm

Have any of you watched the local PBS special about the riots? (http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/july64/film.html) The one where Darryl Porter, the former City School Board member and current ‘Assistant to the Mayor” states as the leader of a gang of African American youths that he will make sure that the riot expands from the Joseph St. area to the other ‘black’ area in Corn Hill (3rd Ward)? His criminal past is left off of his city bio page (http://www.cityofrochester.gov/article.aspx?id=8589935932). If his actions were legitimate shouldn’t he embrace them? His actions sped up any ‘flight’ yet he has been embraced as a ‘leader’ in much the same way as the violent councilman Adam McFadden (‘McFadden admitted saying: “Look, I’ll pull my belt off and beat you like a child.” to a white bar owner) has. I have personally witnessed the violent outbursts of David Gantt at one of the many slum houses he owns. Are these the types of leaders the African American community in Rochester needs or are they part of the political machine? The Machine. So if it is The Machine producing these ‘leaders’, it is The Machine to be blamed, not white flight or any other crap excuse.
My 1st house was next door to a German couple who moved to “the country” (as they put it) off Winton Rd in Irondequoit when the husband returned from WW2, 1948 to be exact as our houses were built in the same year. They grew up on 1st and 8th Streets in the predominately German neighborhood off Central Park. That area then became an Italian area and most of my older co-workers grew up there before moving to……. Irondequoit to raise families in the late 60’s-early 70’s. Most of my classmates moved from Irondequoit to Webster/Penfield.
What has become of the Central Park area since the 70’s? Go there and look. Blame whomever you want but in my years working in that area (public safety) I witnessed rampant littering, violence, complete disregard for laws, norms and mores and heard a million excuses fro all of it, always blaming others and failing to accept responsibility for individual actions.
And Irondequoit? The town I grew up in, walking to/from school at Norton/Goodman and having the run of that area to Culver/Norton (we were allowed to go from Norton to Portland then 104 to Culver and back to Norton as 1st graders on our bikes), what has happened there? Well I remember watching as 3 African American kids on 2 bikes rode up to the bike rack at Ivan Green off Ridge Rd and cut my lock, stealing my bike as my whole class watched. My principal took me in his car and we met up with Officer Rockafeller (a cop’s cop) and we searched the city for an hour but never found my bike. My bike I worked a paper route to buy with my own money. My house in Irondequoit never goes up in value as the schools get worse and crime increases with each apartment complex becoming newly Section 8 eligible. My neighborhood off Norton was full of mobsters and crime was nonexistent. Cars on my street off Empire are routinely broken into today. It isn’t because of ‘sprawl’, it is because people move in who refuse to conform to the accepted norms and mores I mentioned. Those norms and mores are what we used to call American Values.
And me? I spent my career working in the worst areas of the city, treating each and every citizen with dignity regardless of race, sex, attitude, insults, attacks, whatever. I’ve had the blood of thugs and kids on my hands, I’ve done my best to save them and to protect their property and for my entire career I’ve been berated for being there to help. That isn’t anything but the result of piss poor upbringing and coddling by those who aren’t really trying to help, but are enablers.
Instead of hiding in houses how about residents pour out onto the streets and run the thugs out? Instead of the ‘stop snitching’ culture, encourage the police to run the thugs out. Stop making up excuses for those not willing to take responsibility for their own actions. Stop looking in the rear view mirror and keeping score. Stop being cowards. White people didn’t create the problems of the African American community, but I sure as shit don’t blame them from getting as far away from it as possible. If you do than I suggest you go take an apartment off Central Park for a year and see how quickly your tune changes.
Justaguy says:

October 3, 2012 at 9:27 pm

And while we are at it, let’s define racism. No, let’s not. Watch this movie, than re-read the comments in this thread to see that what is tagged as racism here and all over American Media is instead a bastardization of that word to mean ‘blame white folks and only white folks.
And if your immediate thought is: this is a film by a blonde white guy with a Germanic name than you are guilty of exactly what you accuse others of:
http://youtu.be/iEHD5kaOhoQ
American_Patriot says:

October 3, 2012 at 9:36 pm

Schlageter and Gespenst88 are neo-nazis. “88” stands for “Heil Hitler”, and Schlageter is the name of a WWII Nazi war hero. Google it. They are beneath contempt. Don’t engage them.
Justaguy says:

October 3, 2012 at 9:55 pm

Do you know that for fact? I graduated in 88. If I was named Justaguy88 am I a neo-Nazi or are you (as the video you didn’t watch shows) making assumptions. Was this Nazi hero the only person named Schlageter in Germany/Austria/America/the world? Again, you are making huge assumptions by seeing the name, pre-forming an opinion of that poster and then reading their statements with a tainted view.
642 people in the US have that last name according to this page:
http://names.whitepages.com/last/Schlageter

Please don’t tell me whom to engage. It is this lack of or fear of engagement that has led us to this point in our history. And please don’t deflect by calling me a fool or ignorant or anything like that (again see the video). I see valid points made that have not been addressed at all or have been discounted (inaccurately) as racism. If you call yourself ‘American Patriot’ than you should encourage discourse at all levels on all topics. If you don’t than may I suggest ‘American Censor’ as a username?
American_Patriot says:

October 3, 2012 at 10:14 pm

Yes, I know that for a fact. Don’t be a fool.
Patrick Chefalo says:

October 3, 2012 at 10:21 pm

I counted the shots Sunday night, five of them, and heard the car door slam, and the car drive off, then called 911. Officer came to the door later confirmimg there was a shooting. So, justaguy, do I have street cred?

Here’s the problem with your analysis: you pick skin color as the differentiator, rather than the behavior. I don’t know the skin color of the person shot, or the shooter, nor does it matter. It’s a atragedy when a 17-year old in involved in that event. Does it it disturb me that I or a family member or friend might have been involved in the incident? Of course.

Justaguy, you can’t be a leader if you defend the choice to demonize because of race, so whatever might be right or close to right about the your view of the situation is washed completely away. Your protestations to the contrary, you are just … flawed, and unworthy. When you square yourself up, get some empathy, maybe you can contribute.
Justaguy says:

October 3, 2012 at 10:21 pm

WOW. I just did look up Schlageter. You claim he is a Nazi hero, implying he was a force in the party or World War 2 hero or what exactly? The guy died in 1923. The Nazi’s came into power in 1933. The Freikrops he was a a member of in 1922 merged with the ‘Nazi” party that year. The ‘Nazi’ party of 1922-23 is not the party of 1933-on. How then is this guy a Nazi hero? Because Wikipedia says so? Because his memory was used in propaganda? Looks like he fought and fought well in World War 1, which might make him a German Military hero, but the uninformed would take your statement and place him in league with the German High Command of World War 2. Some people look at General George Custer as a hero. Some look at him as a war criminal. It’s all about perspective. I can’t find fault with a guy who fought for his country in World War 1 on either side.
Here is the Wikipedia page for him (and we all know Wiki is 100 accurate…….).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Leo_Schlageter
Don’t blame a dead guy for what they do with his reputation after he is gone.
redwing says:

October 3, 2012 at 10:29 pm

Nazis.. fox news.. how about one of you self righteous name callers address the POINTS those guys raised, and quite clearly and directly i might add. They didn’t dance around or make platitudes.

Skin color and behavior? How do we separate the two? Ill bet none of you other than justaguy has ever ventured into thwae vast ghetto wastelands that once were neighborhoods. Why are they so screwed up? Beats me, but they raised some prert cogent questions that no one here can answer.
Justaguy says:

October 3, 2012 at 10:38 pm

Patrick, you are viewing my statements incorrectly. I gave examples of poor choices of leadership in the African American community as a starting point for a dialog about leadership in our city. I gave examples of my personal interaction with African American residents of the City. I gave examples of my personal victimization at the hands of African Americans. I have NEVER been treated with disdain at work by any other race. I have never been robbed by any other race. I made those points to reinforce that it is the African American community that allows this behavior to continue, not whites, Asians or suburbanites. After the shooting did you look at the color of the police and firefighters that arrived? All races I bet. Did they do their best to help? I bet they did. Did you or other residents come outside to pass along all of the information you could about the incident? Or did fear rule the day? Calling 911 doesn’t take ownership, it passes the buck to the police who are viewed as the enemy within the ‘stop snitchin’ community. Police of all races I should say. ‘Uncle Tom’, I’ve heard more African American police called that than ‘officer’. If you say that you were scared to go outside than what have you done to learn to not be scared? Guns are legal. Do you own one? If you do I would ask why you didn’t take it outside to investigate. If you are anti-gun than you are accepting that you have surrendered your area of the city to those with them. If you say that is the job of the police than I ask again if you went out to speak to them and if you regularly turn in the names of thugs in your area. If you got every non-thug neighbor to form a group to take back your neighborhood you would win. Not PAC-TAC, not neighborhood watch, but a group wiling to place themselves in the line of fire against these punks. Freedom isn’t free is the old mantra. have you stood up for your freedom or have you willingly given it away. Excuses are exactly that.
Justaguy says:

October 3, 2012 at 10:58 pm

American Patriot, I see you resorted to calling me a fool. Can you please post the names of these 2 Nazi’s and proof of their affiliation? Name-calling is childish and making unsubstantiated or false accusations can be dangerous. As a self-proclaimed patriot I would think it your self-imposed duty to out ‘those people’. Wait, I thought saying ‘those people’ is a racist statement. Do you even begin to see the hypocrisy? Or are you blinded by your patriotism?
Knowledge_Is_Power says:

October 3, 2012 at 11:10 pm

Watch out. Justaguy is militia. Just sayin. Wants to be the law on the street, enemy o police. For saety think it’s time to erase this page.
Justaguy says:

October 4, 2012 at 12:25 am

Um, no More assumptions and a lack of addressing facts. Justaguy spent a career as a fireman and has never taken a test to be or had any desire to be a police officer. Justaguy spent his career dealing with the lack of personal accountability by the residents of Rochester and it’s leaders. Failure to acknowledge that the situation of violence in the city (leading to the so-called white flight, more correctly labeled common sense) is directly the result of a complete lack of accountability within the black community. There is that word again; community. I don’t condone nor have I implied violence against anyone. I said to take back your streets via numbers. Flood the streets with good people and report the thugs. If your reason for failing to do so is fear of guns than the logical thing to do would be to have a gun available to use to protect yourself and your property. Just a plain old shotgun that you can get at Wal Mart. When it is known that you have a gun in your house you will either be left alone or they will try to steal your gun, but if everyone in the neighborhood has a gun do you think anyone will have the stupidity to try and steal yours? If you knew that the guy you want to shoot is on Ave. D and that the good people there all have guns and are pro-police would you dare do a drive by? Would you try to break into houses? If you knew that if you got out of line on Ave. D that these good people would again flood the streets holding you accountable and willingly cooperating with the multiracial police force would you get out of line? Justaguy has been to fires where known arsonists houses were burned up by area residents tired of the fires being set. Street justice… and Justaguy didn’t and doesn’t support that. But like so many people did in earlier posts Knowledge Is Power made assumptions with no facts and now Knowledge Is Power wants the discussion to end because the truth hurts and doesn’t fit with the story put forth by….. The Machine. The Machine full of proven criminals and thugs that set the example of do as I say, not as I’ve done’ that want the current system to stay as is so that they can maintain their power base of willingly ignorant fools. They talk a good game but when it comes down to brass tacks it is all blame, blame, blame and never demand accountability, especially from oneself. Continue to bury your head in the sand while blaming everyone else.
American_Patriot says:

October 4, 2012 at 8:28 am

Oh please, you come on here with your cute little dog-whistle names “Schlageter” (you can read up on him in “Mein Kampf”, but I’m sure you have already) and “88” and then you cry boo hoo! Unfair! No proof! We’re not neo-Nazis, we’re just White Supremicists!
How about you wanna-be peckerwoods go back to stormfront.org and leave these nice people alone.
schlageter says:

October 4, 2012 at 9:09 am

Wow! I step away to attend a torchlight rally (or was it a cross burning,Lori?) and the kettle boils over!

SInce no one here can answer the legitimate, and calmly expressed fact-based questions I posed, nor can acknowledge the supporting evidence from the Journal of Black Education (no doubt a GOP sponsored hate site), Ive instead used the decoder ring American Patriot and Audie Murphy aka Gulf War Hero (hey Audie! how many Iraqi children did you kill?)gave me to identify posters.

I mean nothing I or G-88 (88? NAZI!!!!) posted was commonsense or reality based. And who can take Justaguy’s (Just a Guy? = Angry White Male = RACIST)experiences at face value?

After all, he has harbored racist thoughts since the 1st grade, when other members of the community ( I mean, really, how did he know they were African American at that age) merely borrowed his bike to avoid oil-powered means of transport? I mean, cant you see? Those two kids were geniuses! they were going green while you suckers were still driving (yuck!) cars!

Now, lets avoid the unpleasent truths that clash with our false realities and focus instead on the usernames of the posters, That is intelligent debate..

…now if I can just figure out Redwing…Oh wait! I got it! Redwing= baseball fan= a sport dominated by whites and hispanics with only 8% black participation! = RACIST!!!!!!!

Now, if there is anyone with just an ounce of balls who can answer any question I put forth, Ill guarantee you a 40oz of Colt .45. Any takers?

C’mon Audie! we know you homeless vets will do anything for a drink!
Gespenst88 says:

October 4, 2012 at 9:36 am

For the record, I am in fact a member of my HS class of ’88. Wow, AP, do you check under your bed every night for Nazis? And schlageter, don’t you mean hockey?
No one has yet risen to my challenge to name a single place on the planet that is a desirable place to live which happens to be inhabited, governed and dominated by blacks. It should be easy, if what you claim is actually true and “mere skin color” is indicative of nothing but appearance.
RochesterSubway.com says:

October 4, 2012 at 9:43 am

@schlageter, @redwing, are you two are the same person? Or just using the exact same device (same IP address).
schlageter says:

October 4, 2012 at 9:55 am

wow! news to me! must be one of my other personalities…how about you username detectives stay on target and answer some of the questions raised?
RochesterSubway.com says:

October 4, 2012 at 10:00 am

Just be straight ok? To everyone…
I don’t mind you voicing your views here. But:
1. Stay on topic
2. No personal attacks
3. Be YOURSELF, please.
schlageter says:

October 4, 2012 at 10:11 am

Who hasnt stayed on topic? take a look above! who is throwing out “idiot” “racist” “nazi” etc?

the hypocrisy that festers here is hilarious. how about you are your friends here drop the Alinsky tactics and answer the questions?

As far as being myself, i assume your birthname is RochesterSubway?
RochesterSubway.com says:

October 4, 2012 at 10:26 am

@schlageter, my name is at the bottom of every page on this site and I always use RochesterSubway as that’s the name of the site. You originally tossed out the word idiot in reference to me. And that was a warning to everyone, not just you.

The next person who posts a comment that does not advance the debate at hand is getting dumped.
Justaguy says:

October 4, 2012 at 12:21 pm

Subway, I hope my comment advances the debate and if it doesn’t I’m sorry. My main points are:
-the Main St we see in the early 1900’s photo isn’t coming back but it is 100% not due to ‘white flight’. Returning World War 2 vets wanted space. Norton Village (a block from where I grew up in Irondequoit) and Fernwood Park Apts. (and I think the similar ones near Monroe Community Hospital/Iola Campus) were built for returning vets on the ‘outskirts’ of the city. That wasn’t flight.
-As my examples pointed out, groups of various backgrounds rotated through the Central park area starting with pre-World War 2 and continuing on with each generation, moving on to Irondequoit for the next generation, Webster/Penfield after and from the looks of it Ontario/Canandaigua next. Yet the current residents have turned it into crap by their behavior and lack of personal accountability. They are expanding into Irondequoit like generations before did and are bringing their poor norms and mores with them having a definite and measurable effect on the schools and property values. It isn’t because of their color, but their actions.
-The leadership of the local the African American community not only supports these poor choices but have been proven examples of them at every turn, criticizing and ostracizing those who demand accountability. Ben Douglas of City Council? Run out of town by the Gantt Machine. Van White of the School Board? Again, demonized by The Machine. Instead we get people like the epitome of a bully Councilman Adam McFadden who always makes a ‘sincere’ apology after he erupts and School Board member Cynthia Elliott who has to throw F-bombs around at meetings when people disagree with her or question her ‘facts’ and of course Lovely Warren who was Gantt’s personal assistant in Albany and who would fit Webster’s definition of cronyism. These aren’t examples of leaders, these are examples of The Machine.
-Had Rochester and it’s region maintained any type of normal population growth since the post-war period the ‘sprawl’ would be seen as naturally occurring development but because anyone who can leaves the area (due to crime, snow, fear of polar bears, whatever) the population has stagnated. This isn’t ‘flight’, it’s just life.
-Policies by the City itself more than anything have led to true ‘flight’. Ben Douglas was asked what was his biggest regret as a councilman and he said it was changing the city code to allow the chopping up of all of these big beautiful houses into rental units. A move that destroyed places like Maplewood. Former school board members have made similar statements about the move from having high schools all over the city in the 80’s to the ‘middle school’ and ‘school choice’ model which was the final blow for city schools as it took away neighborhood elementary schools in favor of shipping kids all over (removing any investment in your neighborhood as you know you can just ship the kids off if your school sucks).
-For those who look to East/Park as the future, here is the word of the day: gentrification. The local press uses it already. People like bully McFadden and scumbag Gantt will use it to complain about any expansion of ‘that type’ of area into the urban core because they know it will not be a majority African American area and will eat into the power of The Machine. So while it would be great for the city a a whole, it will be fought tooth and nail to keep the sheep rounded up.
-Finally, the annexation laws of NY were put in place almost 100 years ago. Nobody alive had anything to do with them. To say as I have heard a million times ‘well if the city could just expand and be able to spread out the kids to suburban schools all would be well’ is crap. My former school, Eastridge, has plenty of former city students there now and my nieces tell me all of the time about the fights that are started by that group of kids (that were nonexistent there in 88…..oooohhhh, Nazi). They also tell me that they know plenty who live in the city and use grandma’s address at one of those now Section 8 apartment complexes as a way to go to Eastridge. (And I’m all for investigating EVERY student, it won’t happen as enrollment equals tax $ so no district is going to find ways to eliminate potential revenue streams/students).

You see, there are plenty of reasons for why Main St is dead, but white flight has nothing to do with it.
American_Patriot says:

October 4, 2012 at 12:29 pm

I had to look this one up: “gespenst” is German for ghost, so “gespenst88” means “Hitler’s ghost”.
But I can totally see how that could be a random coincidence, you know, with your grad year and something else.
Psst… Wanna buy a bridge?
Justaguy says:

October 4, 2012 at 12:51 pm

Patriot, that might be true, but the question remains; where are answers to points brought up in this conversation?
There have been none. There has been name calling, improper use of the word racist, ideas about architecture, but no answer as to why Main St is empty other than ‘White Flight’ and racism.
As I said before, if you are as patriotic as you apparently hold yourself up to be, why would you care if his username was a flat out derogatory word? Isn’t freedom of speech sacred (obviously taking into account this being a private site which can be run as the owner sees fit)? Gulf War 1967 to me can mean- a Gulf Vet born in 1967 OR a person who fought in or supported the 1967 Arab Israeli War. Or it could be a guy who can’t spell Golf and likes World of Warcraft and owns a 1967 Mustang.
You are looking for issues with names instead of looking at the issues themselves. Address the issues as the owner of the page asked.
Justaguy says:

October 4, 2012 at 12:52 pm

And I’m well aware that I have been using name calling on the scumbags I did. They fully rate it.
schlageter says:

October 4, 2012 at 1:08 pm

While American Patriot (sic) continues on his quest for the hidden meanings of usernames, (which Im sure Subway agrees advances the dialogue, Ive added some factual information on black crime stats.

http://www.examiner.com/article/federal-statistics-of-black-on-white-violence-with-links-and-mathematical-extrapolation-formulas

Now, be forewarned…the author’s last name is Larive. Larive has six letters, as does Romney, and of course….wait for it…Hitler! So caveat emptor!
American_Patriot says:

October 4, 2012 at 1:08 pm

Nope. White Supremacist rants from people with Nazi usernames. You do not have plausible deniability. You got busted and everyone knows it. Why are you trying to deny it? Aren’t you proud to be part of the master race?
Gespenst88 says:

October 4, 2012 at 1:25 pm

Evidently I’m being censored!
schlageter says:

October 4, 2012 at 1:26 pm

Define rant.

Ive posted fact after fact after fact. Yet you are wholly consumed by idiocies of usernames. Ok, how about I repost under the name MLK1968? can you now answer the questions?

Oh Subway!!!??? is this great poster Patriot advancing the discussion?
RochesterSubway.com says:

October 4, 2012 at 1:28 pm

Sorry. Comments are now closed.

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